User talk:BrokenMnemonic

Archive - 2012

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Again, welcome to Sarna's BattleTechWiki!

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Individual Ships

Added this to Frabby's talk page but wanted to be sure you saw it.

ETA: Those rulership succession boxes are a really good idea, btw. I'm trying to think what the greatest number of changes a ship has been through that we can identify. 3 is pretty common, particularly for WOB ships and maybe some of the Clan ships. Is there a ship with a name that's changed 4 times? BrokenMnemonic (talk) 12:36, 26 December 2012 (PST)

OK. Sounds like you've got it. Just add that to the create a warship article, please, so others can see how to do it. And to answer your question, I'm not aware of any ships that have changed hands 4 times, but that doesn't mean there won't be any in the future. Maybe you can start with 3 entries and add more as options?--Mbear^(talk) 04:15, 27 December 2012 (PST)

It would be easy enough to set up a template with ten variable fields to track up to ten different name changes, and thereby have an info box that can list all of the previous names a ship has had up to the current name, if that would be a useful thing to have in addition to the succession template? BrokenMnemonic (talk) 03:31, 31 December 2012 (PST)

Honestly I have no opinion at this time. WarShips aren't my thing. If I see something that I'm not sure of, I'll let you know. :)--Mbear^(talk) 07:19, 2 January 2013 (PST)

Planet and Star Infoboxes

Hy BM, i hope your stard in the new year was well, thanks for the formating on the various planet pages, i know i forgot to add some planetary flags to the infobox. I think circa 50% on the planet pages have now there missing infobox, oh and thanks for helping to add some to articles i missed, greetings.--Doneve (talk) 12:04, 9 January 2013 (PST)

Hy Doneve, my year's been fair to middling so far - I'm helping run a convention that'll be held in mid-May, so I've been feeling a little stretched by that, and it's nice to be able to do some quiet editing on Sarna as a way of relaxing.

I'm happy to be able to help with the planet infoboxes - I did a few while I was updating the planetary histories, and I know how much of a pain they can be. With so many update needed tags for Objectives: Free Worlds League, I'm debating buying a copy of that too so that I can pitch in a bit more. I hope you had a good new year? BrokenMnemonic (talk) 12:12, 9 January 2013 (PST)

ETA: Looking at some of the planetary infoboxes, I think we could do with the infobox not stretching images to a width of 225 pixels if they're already narrower than that - some of the planets, like Denbar, are suffering from very bloated flags now. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 12:21, 9 January 2013 (PST)

At first i know the planetary flag problem, i want to upload some new in smaller size, and fix the infoboxes. Hmm, the stard in new year was very busy, my cousin from Canada and eight from our family visit us and stay for view days by us, some trouble was programm , what a conventions is that, have you a date for me, and on wish location (city) stard the convention, i have from April to June holidays, and i don't know howe i fill my time in this months .--Doneve (talk) 12:32, 9 January 2013 (PST)

I've asked Mbear about the infoboxes, as I remember Rev used to ask him about infoboxes a lot - I hope he can help. It's way outside my experience...

I'm not sure I could survive having 8 family members visit at once! It was hectic enough when there were 6-7 of us at my parents this year. It was nice in some ways to come back to my house for the New Year and enjoy a little quiet. Are you enjoying having the house back to just you and your family now?

The convention I'm helping to run is Vidukon, a convention about fan-vidding - making music videos about tv shows and films. It's only a little con - the last one 2 years ago had about 35 people at it, and so far we've got about 12 registered for this year - but it's in Cardiff, which is close to where I live, and because the organisers needed help, I ended up joining the convention committee as Treasurer to help run things. I'm also the TechMonkey - I'm responsible for making sure the sound works, getting all the vids into a format that will play, establishing what format we want them in, that sort of thing. I'm trying to make a vid for the Premieres show on the Saturday, but it's going slowly...

This is the vid I made for the last show - although the comedy part of the horror comedy theme didn't really come through on the day BrokenMnemonic (talk) 12:45, 9 January 2013 (PST)

Ha ha ha, i know what you mean, i love also when the house is quiete, oh and thanks for the con infos.--Doneve (talk) 12:55, 9 January 2013 (PST)

I'm feeling the flags in the infoboxes! Good work! ClanWolverine101 (talk) 14:43, 9 January 2013 (PST)

Thank you It's nice to get a chance to help Doneve out - normally, it's the other way around! BrokenMnemonic (talk) 00:12, 10 January 2013 (PST)

That's what Doneve does! ClanWolverine101 (talk) 07:22, 10 January 2013 (PST)

Planet InfoBox

Copied from my talk page Mbear, as the resident expert on infobox construction, is there any way to amend the Template:InfoBoxPlanetStandard template so that if the image is already less than 225 pixels in width, it isn't increased automatically to a width of 225 pixels? Some of the info boxes (like Denbar) are suffering from image bloat because the long, think planetary flags are being scaled up dramatically... BrokenMnemonic (talk) 12:27, 9 January 2013 (PST)

I don't know off the top of my head. Let me look into it.--Mbear^(talk) 04:17, 10 January 2013 (PST)

Updated the InfoboxPlanetStandard to include a new paramater: imagewidth. If you have an image less than 225px, you can enter the width in pixels on this line to show image w/o scaling. Leaving line blank will assume width of 225px.--Mbear^(talk) 04:31, 10 January 2013 (PST)

New Syrtis

Hy BM, have this award from me , for your great New Syrtis article update, this article is a template for me, how must a planet article must look, great work.--Doneve (talk) 08:30, 18 January 2013 (PST)

Hy Doneve Thank you, that's very kind! I'm lucky, there was a lot of detail available on New Syrtis in the two handbooks, and it played a pretty prominant role in the Davion Civil War and some other events. It was more fun than some other planet articles I've written It's got me thinking about expanding the Federated Suns history article (if there is one) because I'm finding the different Marches and their ruling families rather interesting. Did you know that the Princes of the Draconis March Principality, based out of their Capital of Tancredi IV, were named Kerensky, up until the last elderly Kerensky was replaced by Laura Davion? Or that the original family that held the title of Prince of the Terran March Principality were killed by a Terran Hegemony raid on Royalston, and replaced for a couple of generations by the Rhostov family? It's not something I've really read up on before, but I'm finding it all rather interesting, and the Civil War covers a lot of planets... you know how much I like expanding planet articles. And it's set in the Age of War, which I'm finding increasingly intersting...

Anyway, I'm rambling. Thanks again for the award! I shall update my awards board now... BrokenMnemonic (talk)

Individual Warship articles: Categories

Hi BrokenMnemonic, finally got some time to look into your articles and there's two points I'd like to raise with you:
1. WarShips aren't JumpShips as far as categorization is concerned. The five major categories for individual hulls are WarShip, JumpShip, DropShip, Small Craft, and Installation. In this sense, JumpShips are (only) civilian JumpShip designs with a standard KF core; WarShips don't fall into the JumpShip category.
2. Please add the appropriate category (e.g. [[Category:Individual Destroyers]]) to articles where the ship's type is known. Similarly and on top of this, please add the appropriate category (e.g. [[Category:Individual Suffren-class vessels]]) to articles where the class is known. In this way, I'd like to mirror the categories tree established for classes. Frabby (talk) 11:51, 19 January 2013 (PST)

1 - Done.

2 - Done.

A couple of things came out of my categorisation spree earlier that you may wish to take a view on.

• Not all WarShip types are categorised - the Volga, Potemkin and Faslane were all missing classes. I used the definitions within the WarShip classifications page to categorise them as a transport, a cruiser and a Yard-Ship respectively, but you may wish to correct that if I got it wrong.
• You may wish to choose to have light and heavy cruiser become subcategories of the cruiser category; looking at the classifications page, some of the lightest cruisers are described as heavy cruisers, while some cruisers such as the Potemkin are either simply described as "cruiser" or a weird subdivision such as "transport cruiser." When it comes to describing vessels narratively, the writers often seem to simply use "cruiser" - the SLS Havana is an example of that. This might require tagging a lot of vessels as both a cruiser and a subdivision, or you could take the view that cruiser is used when that's the only description and is a less accurate category to be improved if information is available.

You've not commented on whether the names of the Minotaur and Lakshmi are correct or not, so I've assumed for now that they are, and added the Minotaur to the Aegis page as the SLS Minotaur, rather than as the THS Minotaur quoted on the CGL forum review. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 03:03, 20 January 2013 (PST)

You rule, man! Thanks! The Cruiser designation is sort of a catch-all designation really, and WarShip classification is wonky anyways. I wouldn't want to categorize beyond Cruiser, especially given that the Cruiser sub-classes typically have only a handful classes in them and thus aren't worth differentiating anyways (heavy, light, battle, troop, pursuit cruisers and maybe a couple more; not aware of any particular class referred to as "transport cruiser" though - the Potemkin is called a "troop cruiser"). Similarly, I feel we don't need categories for YardShips or transport WarShips. But it doesn't hurt either. Nothing to "correct" here.

As for The Theseus Knot, I have the print edition of the Weapons Free anthology before me and am working it down story by story. Theseus Knot is upcoming. Reading it over, I gather the SLS Minotaur is a refitted Aegis and the FSS Klingenthal a new Congress. No quick ID of the Lakshmi beyond that it was the former command of the Minotaur's CO, i.e. apparently a SLS ship. Frabby (talk) 03:58, 20 January 2013 (PST)

OK, the system is working so far. Davion and Lola class vessels are going to be a pain, because they consist of discrete blocks (I and II for the Davion, I, II and III for the Lola) in article terms, but the texts often don't specify which block a ship came from - that's a problem with ships like the FSS Charles Davion.

The system is allowing for ships that we weren't previously tracking to be loaded into the wiki, though. A case in point is the FSS Lucien Davion, which couldn't be easily recorded before because it had no class information - the same goes for the SLS Havana and the SLS Dularam. It's a little bit of a pain to have to pipe the ship names so that they show up in the correct format, but considerably less of a pain now than it used to be, where I was having to pipe in the name of the class and the sub-link to the Named Vessels section to link to a ship name accurately.

It's also making the WarShip class articles look a little tidier, in my opinion - you can see the difference if you look at something like the Com Guard subsection of the Essex page compared to the other subsections. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 05:16, 21 January 2013 (PST)

Ship name prefixes

Looking at The Theseus Knot article, I feel we should probably create a summary list page for Naval prefixes in BattleTech with redirects in place for individual prefixes (THS, SLS, FSS, et al - btw if CSV is ComStar, what prefix do the Steel Vipers use?). Obviously, the aim would be to link [[FSS]] [[Klingenthal]]. Oh, and we should definitely add a redirect to [[Klingenthal]] from [[FSS Klingenthal]], just to make sure every possible way to write the ship name is covered. "We" being "you" these days, I have to admit. I'd like to help more, but on top of all my workload my entire family save myself is violently ill right now...

Oh, and by the way: Is there an accurate technical/naval term for these prefixes? Frabby (talk) 13:34, 31 January 2013 (PST)

A summary list for prefixes is probably a very good idea. I've a feeling that there are a couple of potential duplicates out there (and I'm kicking myself that I missed the FSS Klingenthal redirect).

I'm not aware of a specific naval term for prefixes - everything I've read simply refers to it as the ship prefix. Although I notice that I've been a little sloppy in some of the articles - there are conventions for using prefixes, such as not putting "The" before a ship with a prefix when you start paragraphs... e.g. "The HMS Warspite was a Royal Navy ship of the line..." is wrong, it should be "HMS Warspite was a ..."

It's also not considered correct to keep using the prefix after the first mention of a ship - and that's something I keep forgetting. So, in an article on the Warspite, it would be "HMS Warspite" the first time, and simply Warspite throughout the rest of an article.

If a ship is from a nation that doesn't use prefixes, then you normally spell out the name of the nation on the first use, e.g. "The Swiss corvette Jungfrau..."

Just to complicate matters regarding ComStar, from what I can see in sources like Twilight of the Clans, during the reign of the Second Star League, ComStar used ISS - which I'm guessing means "Inner Sphere Ship" - rather than CSV (ComStar Vessel). Although finding occasions where the abbreviations are spelt out is rather tricky. Regarding the Steel Vipers, the abbreviation I've seen used is CStV and then the ship name, but that's from existing articles here. FM: Warden Clans makes no mention of the prefix, nor does FM: Updates. Historical: Op Klondike doesn't use any prefixes at all (and I really must sit down and datamine that sourcebook for shipnames, it's an untapped goldmine of detail at the moment). The original Objective Raids makes no mention of WarShips. Wars of Reaving makes no mention I can see, either. Jihad Secrets: The Blake Documents confirms the prefixes for some of the Clans - CIH for the Hellions, CJF for the Falcons, although I notice it doesn't confirm anything for the Hell's Horses. I think we may be looking at a case of the prefixes having been conjured up by fandom in a lot of cases. Hmm. I may Ask The Writers if they could clarify prefixes in use. I did notice some oddities - for example, Capellan WarShips use the prefix CCS, but their DropShips use the prefix CCSS.

Anyway, I must go to bed, but thanks for the detail on the Lakshmi, I'll get that updated tomorrow, and I hope you and your family get well soon. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 14:06, 31 January 2013 (PST)

Started a thread on the BT forum to get some community input. There's a few issues already (CSV; CDS/DSS; CGB/CGBS). Let's see if more pop up; I intend to post one summary question to the writers eventually to clear up all questionable or unclear results raised in the thread. Frabby (talk) 14:01, 15 February 2013 (PST)

Hy BM, iam done with ca. 90% of the individul vessel name links on the WarShip pages, but i don't add links to the Clan Steel Viper vessels, i don't know which prefix we use for the Steel Vipers, i datamine my sourcebooks and hope i can found any info.--Doneve (talk) 07:00, 27 February 2013 (PST)

Hy Doneve, according to Wars of Reaving the Steel Vipers used CSV, just like ComStar, so that's what I've been using in all the articles dealing with Steel Viper ships. I'm still working my way through Warden Clans adding ships, though - I've still got Crusader Clans to go, and I need to finish up with a few other books. There are a lot of WarShips out there, aren't there? At this rate, I think we'll soon know what a large proportion of Kerensky's exodus fleet was by ship class. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 07:06, 27 February 2013 (PST)

Ah, ok thanks for the info.--Doneve (talk) 07:18, 27 February 2013 (PST)

Great work, both of you! Every day I'm amazed at all you have done. Sometime, I'll have to go though a lot of my larger articles, like the Clan Coyote page, and the Smoke Jaguar/Mongoose Absorption. From my earliest BT recollections of The Periphery and onward, I loved space battles, so I made sure to pay attention to them in my articles, with all ship names present. And now, because of you guy's diligent work, I'll get to go through those articles and link the names of each vessel to articles that explain more of their history in depth. That's great, and I hope you guys are honored for your endeavors. --Rebs (talk) 11:48, 28 February 2013 (PST)

Believe it or not, I'm actually trying really hard not to think about all of those Jihad and Reunification War articles I'm going to have to go back and change, having carefully listed the WarShips in each and pointed at the named vessels section of each WarShip article... It makes me glad that I hadn't got very far on the Amaris Civil War just yet! BrokenMnemonic (talk) 00:24, 1 March 2013 (PST)

Hello Broken, I was just perusing the archives of the Clan Chatterweb earlier, and I found a link to Ghost Bear talking about the Leviathan Prime (the connotations are interesting)... [1]

Figured you might be interested to know this. His comment is the last one on the very bottom, though he comments above regarding the vessel as well. Rebs (talk) 22:58, 1 March 2013 (PST)

New Planet overhaul member

Hy BM, hope all is well with you, we have a new planet overhaul member, please take a look on his talk page User talk:SnagaDance, i think he can help us with the planet map problem, greetings.--Doneve (talk) 08:09, 5 February 2013 (PST)

Harira/Hahira

(copied over from Mbear's talk page)

Saw you deleted Harira, with a note that it was a misspelling for Hahira. Where did that notion come from? Because I'm working on a BC story set partly on Harira, where it is spelled thusly. Frabby (talk) 12:13, 6 February 2013 (PST)

You'd have to ask BrokenMnemonic. He put it up for deletion originally. I just hit the delete button.

(diff) 03:29, March 21, 2012 . . BrokenMnemonic (Talk | contribs | block) (5,132 bytes) (Added deletion request template - entry is a duplicate, based on the mis-spelling of Hahira as Harira)

Sorry!--Mbear^(talk) 04:04, 7 February 2013 (PST)

Hi Frabby. Sorry for the delay in responding - I've been rather ill this week, which has stopped me from getting much of anything done.

I marked Harira for deletion as a duplicate entry based on the following:

- Harira and Hahira shared co-ordinates, making it likely that they were being confused with each other

- The auto-generated nearest neighbours map for Harira showed it to be in the same location as the planet Hahira in maps from Era Report: 2750, Handbook: House Davion, Historical: Liberation of Terra Volume 1 and the Map of the Inner Sphere 3130 all show the planet in that location as being named Hahira, not Harira.

- I couldn't find a planet named Harira in any of the electronic BattleTech sourcebooks I have (although I'm not a BC subscriber)

- I couldn't find a planet named Harira in any of Volt or Bad Syntax's mapping information, which is based on even more sources than the ones I own

- There was no entry on Sarna for Hahira, despite it being an established BT world on maps going back to FASA days

Based on those points and the number of previous instances like this where it turned out to be an error in the original information imported from the Inner Sphere mapping site that first established the basis for the planet articles here, it seemed likely that the IS mapping project has misnamed the world, and Sarna had simply imported erroneous data. One of the first things I was involved with here was nailing down exactly this sort of issue with Revanche over the names of worlds like Gillfillan's Gold - originally on here as Gilfillian's Gold, Jordan Wais - imported onto Sarna as Jordan, and Quiberas, which was missing completely and had been replaced on here with Wais.

It may be that I was wrong to mark it for deletion without specifically confirming it with the Writers over on the CGL library, but given that I couldn't find a single source anywhere to confirm that Harira existed while the planet Hahira was completely missing, I couldn't think of a way of asking for their opinion because I wasn't asking for an opinion on a contradiction within BT canon, I'd instead have been asking for an opinion on a contradiction solely within Sarna, which I don't think they'd comment on. It now sounds as if you've just turned up a contradiction between two canon sources, at which point it'd be worth asking the question over at CGL. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 23:09, 7 February 2013 (PST)

Well oookay... I may just drop the charges of High Treason then. ;)

It's apparently another case of a system name that got misspelt until the misspelling became canon (New Hati nee New Haiti being my favourite so far). The original Davion Housebook has the world down as "Harira", and that name is also used in the BC story The Bitter Taste of Hope which is partially set there. Of course there's the off chance that we're looking at two inhabited worlds in the same system. I have Asked the Writers. Frabby (talk) 00:58, 8 February 2013 (PST)

I also found Jacomarle and Jacomarie, the former being the name on maps and the latter found in-text in Historical: Brush Wars. In the new database I'm going to put both names, with the "newer" name in parenthesis. So New Vandenberg and New Vandenburg, Ingomish and Ingonish, etc... will be searchable. Do you guys know any more spelling mutations?-Volt (talk) 04:09, 8 February 2013 (PST)

There is Grumium and Gumium, the latter appearing in the NAIS Atlases and the former being used in every other source I have seen. BPSteiner (talk) 08:48, 27 February 2013 (PST)

GIS Maps

Hy BM, Volt bring me to this beautiful forum, (not Aris) i see you become a member yesterday on Aris :). This site is for maps take a look and you where surprised, her is the link [2], oh and please give me a response what you are think of the created maps by GIS software.--Doneve (talk) 09:46, 18 February 2013 (PST)

Hy Doneve I think I have an account with ourbattletech, although I've not used it for a while - I'll check when I get a quiet few minutes at work, because I think that's where I registered from. No Java at work though, which is why I think I've not used it much...

Aris looks useful too - I'm not sure I can contribute much, but it's already given me plenty to think about! BrokenMnemonic (talk) 10:47, 19 February 2013 (PST)

On the GIS front - it looks like a very sensible way of getting improved nearest neighbour maps on here, and perhaps larger maps too. I'm not sure how much we can do though - I think that Volt's spreadsheet holds the information that'd be needed, but we could certainly use the maps. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 10:47, 19 February 2013 (PST)

SnagaDance might be able to help you translate the data in my spreadsheet into the relevant maps. Doneve sent him a link to the files so he'd be able to work on those. Though, I'm working on an updated list. I have changes on the faction ownership, but the coordinates are unchanged.-Volt (talk) 17:45, 20 February 2013 (PST)

Did you see that they had enough space in Historical: Liberation of Terra Volume 2 to give us a map of the complete Inner Sphere as at the end of the 1st Succession War? Ok, it's not a full set of maps from Handbook: House Kurita, but it's great to finally be getting some internal mapping detail on the Combine as at various milestones. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 00:08, 21 February 2013 (PST)

Yup, I've already inputted the data from the 2822 map on my list. I've overwritten some data that was found on the Handbook sectional maps like ownership of Herotitus and others. I need to see a Historical:Succession Wars for 2864 and 3030 maps, that would totally make my day.-Volt (talk) 03:11, 25 February 2013 (PST)

Herb's commented in at least one of the BattleChats about the possibility of an Era Digest: Succession Wars - given that the maps clearly exist, I'm thinking that would be our best bet for seeing them. Fingers crossed! BrokenMnemonic (talk) 04:46, 25 February 2013 (PST)

FSS Lucien Davion

Hy BM, please take a look on the FSS Lucien Davion page, i moved content from the Avalon warship page to the FSS Lucien, and noticed the ship was destroyed during the Reunification war, i don't want to mixed up the page, but i think i do it, argh argh, need help, thanks.--Doneve (talk) 12:44, 26 February 2013 (PST)

Hy Doneve,

Simple answer - there have been two ships named the FSS Lucien Davion. One was a ship destroyed in the Reunification War - we aren't told what class Admiral Vincent's ship was, which is annoying; then, at some point in the 31st century, the FedSuns/FedCom built an Avalon class ship and named it the FSS Lucien Davion as well. So, we need two entries - Lucien Davion (Vessel) for the first one, and Lucien Davion (Avalon) for the second. There's another out there like that - the Ark Royal. Oh, and the Titanic, which is even worse (both ships were Potemkins).BrokenMnemonic (talk) 12:48, 26 February 2013 (PST)

Thanks so much, i corrected my mess.--Doneve (talk) 12:59, 26 February 2013 (PST)

Not a problem :) I've found a few ships like this. It may be worth adding a note to each article explaining the existence of the other ship - the Davions really seem to like either naming their ships after planets, or naming them after famous Davions, and there are only so many of each... BrokenMnemonic (talk) 13:04, 26 February 2013 (PST)

Brett Andrews and ilKhans

BM - Excellent editing job on the Brett Andrews article. I commend you with a ! On a related note... I hate Ulric Kerensky. I hate him soooo much. Oh, he was a nice enough guy for an IlKhan, i suppose, given most ilKhans were evil/insane/megalomaniacs like Mr. Andrews. But he is a PAIN to write. Still, I press on. Hope to have something for the group within a few days. ClanWolverine101 (talk) 12:02, 22 March 2013 (PDT)

I couldn't resist taking a look at the Brett Andrews article - after working through lots of WarShips from Wars of Reaving I can't help but loathe him, in a fashion not dissimilar to that with which I loathe Amos Forlough...

As I'm busy with work with for the convention coming up I'm not getting much done here on weekends at all, but if you post during the week I'll be happy to take a look. I don't know a huge amount about Ulric as I haven't read the Kerensky trilogy since it first came out, and the Clans have never really been my thing, so it'll be an interesting learning experience... BrokenMnemonic (talk) 14:54, 24 March 2013 (PDT)

I can tell you honestly, I am relaxed and somewhat elated simply to have "Andy" passed me now. It truly was enervating to get it together, he's shucked himself of redeeming qualities thoroughly and with no joy or sorrow about it, just mean selfishness.

Thanks for looking over it from me too, because I really truly was just tired of seeing it and had to save it. I hit it up with a strong copyedit too when I had time to get away and come back. But your efforts to round it out are appreciated by myself as well as the crew. And your naval articles are of course excellent. You do indeed have a secret reserve of Clan flair, and it shows. --Rebs (talk) 17:26, 24 March 2013 (PDT)

"ClanJadeFalcon"

Thanks for taking action so quickly and clearing this mess up! Frabby (talk) 00:14, 28 March 2013 (PDT)

Thank you - it's not often we get someone intentionally vandalising pages for purposes other than generic spam, which makes me wonder what was behind this particular case. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 00:53, 28 March 2013 (PDT)

Yeah, curious situation indeed. I would've sworn we'd never, ever need those user warning templates for real that Revanche drew up years ago, but this is such a case. I saw some curious edits and Doneve's warning on my smartphone but that stupid thing isn't nearly as useful as they're made out to be, and near-useless for editing. When I was behind a real computer again after a couple of hours, Scaletail had already added the template to the user's talk page. And that seems to have been all, for the time being at least. Childish vandal. Frabby (talk) 07:11, 28 March 2013 (PDT)

Invader Jumpship

Hy BM, happy eastern or Ostern , i found a new Invader-class JumpShip the Scrimshaw Sailor in Interstellar Players 3: Interstellar Expeditions, p. 82, i want to give you this as reminder.--Doneve (talk) 07:33, 31 March 2013 (PDT)

Hy Doneve, Happy Easter With IP3:IE out of moratorium today, I'm really looking forward to getting to go through the book and add detail here - I think it's my favourite of the most recently released books. And it gives us not just another named Invader, it gives us a named Bug-Eye too... how cool is that? BrokenMnemonic (talk) 01:06, 1 April 2013 (PDT)

Deep Periphery

It's me again, i updated Kleinwelt a little bit by ISP3 info, but my question is, i create the Category: Deep Periphery Planets category for the planet overhaul, i don't know if this category works, or we change it, but i feel it works, what do you think.--17:25, 31 March 2013 (PDT)

Hy Doneve, I think there's a bit of a problem with the Periphery worlds in that how do we tell whether a world is a Periphery world or a Deep Periphery world? Kleinwelt's a good example - it used to be a planet in the Magistracy of Canopus, which would make it a Periphery world, but now that it's outside the borders of the Magistracy, it's a Deep Periphery world? I think we'd need a ruling from TPTB on how they class worlds as either Periphery or Deep Periphery before we add the category ourselves, because I don't know how we can tell the difference. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 01:13, 1 April 2013 (PDT)

Ask a favor

Hello BrokenMnemonic, it's a long time since I'm working for sarna. In the past I had a problem to accept the policy of the site. But now I'm back and I find a place to create my work without any disturbance. I hope that the online Spell Checker that I use works probably. Please take a look at the operation Rat side of the 4th Succession War and tell me if there are issues with the grammar. Tnx Neuling (talk) 03:26, 4 April 2013 (PDT)

There are some grammatical oddities in the article - how much of it would you like me to work through? I may not get much done as I don't have a lot of time until Sunday, but I can go through some of it and copyedit it a little, if it would be helpful? BrokenMnemonic (talk) 12:54, 4 April 2013 (PDT)

Individual vessels with images

Hi, just wanted to inform you that I tweaked the Template:InfoBoxIndividualVessel so that you only have to enter the filename in the image section, not a proper file link. This is how we do it on all other infobox templates. I found out about the problem when I tried to include the individual picture of the Manassas (Vessel). I'm unsure if the change causes wonky results in cases where an image link was put into the infobox, but I haven't seen a single WarShip (or vessel) article with an image so far so I couldn't check. If you recall any such articles sporting an image, please check or let me know which articles have images. Thanks. Frabby (talk) 15:05, 4 April 2013 (PDT)

At the moment, I haven't added an image to any of the ship articles; there are actually not that many images of specific named vessels in canon that I'm aware of, although I've mainly been working through text-heavy books at the moment. In fact, the only ship that I'm actively aware of that has its own image will be the Black Lion-class SLS Tripitz, because it's pictured being destroyed by ComStar fighters in one of the sourcebooks. I need to take a closer look at the sourcebooks when I have a chance, because I think there are pictures of a number of vessels dotted around in them (I think the destruction of some of the Snow Raven ships at Ramora has an image showing the various WarShips, for example) but I've simply not had time so far - I've been working on trying to get as much of the text as possible in place first, to give us a viable bank of articles to work from. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 00:50, 5 April 2013 (PDT)

Design Quirks

Hy BM, hope the con stress don't suck you out!. Can you take a look on the Design Quirks page, i built at this time the main body of the page, but any support or critism is welcome, to change some parts, oh and a little bit fluff writing i need, you known i have a lack off this --Doneve (talk) 20:03, 5 April 2013 (PDT)

Hy Doneve, I've spent six or seven hours today encoding video footage and testing builds for DVD structures, but it's been productive. I've been working with a friend, and we went to a small comics fair here this morning and had a huge lunch at our favourite restaurant here in town to fortify us! It's going to be a really busy couple of weeks while I try and get everything sorted.

I had a look at the Quirks page, dug out my hard copy of Strat Ops, and tried adding some fluff for the first half dozen negative Quirks. Is what I've added the sort of thing you were looking for? BrokenMnemonic (talk) 14:05, 6 April 2013 (PDT)

Great thank's a lot, iam in trouble, more response on next day.--23:04, 6 April 2013 (PDT)

BM, have this award for helping out with fluff writing , thanks so much.--Doneve (talk) 10:59, 7 April 2013 (PDT)

I'm happy to be of help, and very flattered with the ribbon, thank you Can I help with whatever the trouble is that you're in? BrokenMnemonic (talk) 11:18, 7 April 2013 (PDT)

Hy, you can't help by my trouble, the water pipe in our house was broken grml, but all is fixed now, a hail to our instellateur, oh and thanks to finish the quirks fluff writing, but i notice a redirect problem, i want to create redirects to the various quirks, but when i list; example: #REDIRECTList of Negative Design Quirks#Gas Hog there is red linked, i don't know if this is a problem why i use the style box template for the quirks.--Doneve (talk) 14:51, 8 April 2013 (PDT)

Hy Doneve, I can't do anything about the water pipe other than be sympathetic, but I've fixed the links for the design quirks for you. Redirects only work within a table of contents structure, so I reformatted the page - it gives it a stupidly long table of contents, but now you can use Design Quirks#Gas Hog to point straight at the Quirk - as in, Gas Hog. Hope that helps! I'll carry on working through the Quirks from TRO: Prototypes tomorrow after I've slept a little. Should be done soon! BrokenMnemonic (talk) 15:09, 8 April 2013 (PDT)

And again thanks so much, i know now where the mistake comes from.--Doneve (talk) 15:26, 8 April 2013 (PDT)

Erinyes (Vessel)

Hy BM, hope all is well with you, when you have time can you take a look on the Erinyes (Vessel) page, thanks.--Doneve (talk) 09:50, 20 April 2013 (PDT)

Hy Doneve, I'm feeling good now that most of the work for the convention is done! Another few weeks, and it'll be over and I'll be able to go back to my regular lifestyle I made a few minor copyedits to the Erinyes and added a couple of references from Jihad: Final Reckoning, but the article itself looks good! Thanks for adding the Erinyes - I think it's something that crops up in BattleCorps stories, which makes working out what's been said about it a bit tricky. I was deliberately putting it off! BrokenMnemonic (talk) 10:03, 20 April 2013 (PDT)

Grml

Please take a look on the heat discussion on Erinyes (Vessel) talk page, i love BT, but i found so many incossistent thinks (yeah sarna have a lak), but i found the problems on the bad consensus on the forum, or better said on the CGL talks. The other is the errata, look on [Tachtical Operiation] we have one to ??? errata downloads on the CGL page, i must laught when i read the post on BT forum, and i can talk some more to the other rule books, and the other side is on the old BT forum (before there was hacked), there had a lot of errata i can't found on the new, why they not restord it, on the main BT page, i mean Field Manuals, Mercenaries Supplemental and so on, i must cray, with best regards to others there read this.

I think you are very interestest on this Engineer blog, please read from the bottom of the blog.

--Doneve (talk) 17:58, 22 April 2013 (PDT)

It does bug me that the errata for a number of documents like the Field Manuals and all of the FanPro-era documents are basically missing. It's one reason why when I quote a correction from the Ask The Writers forum, I always include the detail of the answer as well as a link to it - I've found a number of cases, particularly with WarShips, where someone's quoting a correction here, but the link leads back to what must've been a past iteration of the forum, which has since been deleted. I've been tracking a few answers on my user page, but because I was never registered with the previous forum I can't get at any of the answers apparently stored in the forum archive - and even the Wayback Machine doesn't have copies of them

I read the Bad Syntax's blog periodically - he and I differ on the importance of some things, but I share his frustration with how often relatively simple questions to clarify what look like errors don't get answered. Some writers are really good at responding quickly, but sometimes the questions never get answered, and that's very disappointing. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 00:02, 23 April 2013 (PDT)

Welcoming new contributors

Guys, I really appreciate it when editors reach out to new contributors here, like you did with Nuclear-Fridge. If there is anything that will help encourage people to do more than just a single drive-by edit, it is personal recognition and you both knocked it out of the ballpark with him. Really, thanks.--Revanche ^{(talk|contribs)} 12:19, 25 April 2013 (PDT)

No problem I know that getting some recognition for my edits early on was a big motivating factor for me, and both Nuclear-Fridge and Mattiator seem to have made strong starts here, so it felt entirely appropriate to give them some recognition and hopefully encourage them to keep their efforts up. I'm encouraged by the fact that Mattiator is writing complete articles, while Nuclear-Fridge looks like a very effective copy-editor. Hopefully, they'll both stick around! BrokenMnemonic (talk) 23:50, 25 April 2013 (PDT)

Break Well

Enjoy your con! --Revanche ^{(talk|contribs)} 18:45, 30 April 2013 (PDT)

Break Well

Enjoy your con! --Revanche ^{(talk|contribs)} 18:46, 30 April 2013 (PDT)

I will, if I ever get there At the moment, the deadline for finishing the con programme in print-ready format is Friday night, and I'm still waiting for the playlist one of the ten or twelve vidshows and panels, as well as details on a premiering vid (or not) in another show, plus I'm still waiting for one show's worth of vids to be uploaded so that I can compile the DVD for them - fixing any encoding problems along the way, some of which I need help from other people - and while it's not keeping me up at nights yet, I'm starting to look forward to the con being over so there'll be nothing left for me to worry about... BrokenMnemonic (talk) 23:34, 30 April 2013 (PDT)

Ship Notes for Writeup

• Kobayashi and Invader-class Fox's Bane used by Highlanders for strike on Wayside V, 3058; ships transported include Overlord-class DropShip "Claymore". - Ref: Impetus of War, p. 64. Other DropShips transported included Bull Run, Retribution and Stonewall. - Ref: Impetus of War, p. 70.
• Smoke Jaguar JumpShip Admiral Andrews - Ref: Exodus Road, p. 155 DropShip Dhava, Mohawk, Stealthy Cat - Ref: Exodus Road, p. 161 (Note planet name for later article: Pivot Prime, Caliban Nebula). Admiral Andrews is Odyssey-class (p. 141)
• DropShip Lobo Negro, Clan Wolf - Grave Covenant, p. 14. DropShip Barbarossa, p. 259. FWL/CC JumpShip King of Monkeys - Grave Covenant, p. 181
• Achilles DropShip Bisan, Invader JumpShip Alkmarr - Ref The Hunters, p. 74 (planet named Resistance in Defiance system)
• LCAF cruisers LCS Endeavor and Granite - two Lyran cruisers that had reinforced the garrison at Hesperus II just prior to the 3rd battle for the planet; engaged the FWLM cruisers FWLS Devastator and Skulker. Granite was a Reunification War veteran that rammed the Devastator, leading to the destruction of both ships. Ref: HS(TLC), p. 50, Attacks on Hesperus II.
• LCS Yo' Mama - WarShip used as a transport by the Stealths on their Feb 21 2826 raid to recover the freighter Chahar Profit from the Combine Darius system. Presumably a WarShip, as it made a "screaming run" on the planet. Ref: HS(TLC), p. 50, "Rescue of the Chahar Profit"
• LCS Stringfire and Evereft: Two JumpShips that became entangled and destroyed in a misjump due to attempting to jump while too close together during the opening stages of the Long March. Ref: HS(TLC), p. 21, "Long March, Hard March"
• LCS Spellsinger - "combat JumpShip" - and LCS Firewalker - "another JumpShip", ca. 2532, associated with Long March? Check hardcopy. Ref: HS(TLC), p. 22, "Jump"
• FWLS Ripper and Tomain - FWL destroyers which destroyed the LCS Augustus early in the Feb 14 2787 raid on the Bolson Shipyards.
• FWLS Rasalas - ex-SLDF battlecruiser, fought in the Feb 14 2787 Bolson Shipyard raid, disabled by a Chippewa suicide run and crashed into the shipyards.

Support offer

Hello BrokenMnemonic,

I follow your work for some time and say tnx for your great work. I'm not a good writer in english because that is not my native language. But I can offer my support for your work. For example: I find many maps in my database which I missing in your article so fare. I talking about the maps of the sldf forces in field manual 2750 or the reunificaction war. I could provide for your sldf overview corps and army insignia in high quality with out the grey back ground. At last I find a good solution to show the border changes of the different states from two different time dates for example: the Outworld Alliance lost many planets to the Federated Suns and the Draconis Combine after the Reunification War.

With best regards

Neuling (talk) 13:36, 20 May 2013 (PDT)

Hi Neuling,

Any help is gratefully accepted! I haven't had much opportunity to do work with maps in some time now, so anything you want to add by way of maps and logos will be useful. It's going to be some time before I catch up with FM:2750 and the two Liberation of Terra volumes, but I'm a great believer in the idea that we should have as much relevant information as possible in every article, and maps are a big part of that. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 00:46, 22 May 2013 (PDT)

Hope all is well

Hy, sorry for the late response, i needed my holidays and had a great time with the family, but the bomb was exploded when i back at home, the pc killed his self, now iam back at yesterday, have a new machine, hm yes with WIN8 but it works very well, but my bigest problem is, i lost all my BT database and the backup files, i can't cry, now i'm in rebulding process to build a new databasw (yes yes) with better security and so on, i lost all infos and images, arg arg arg. Oh and i see User: Nuclear Fringe do a great job on sarna, great to have new guys on sarna.--Doneve (talk) 16:14, 22 May 2013 (PDT)

Your PC died? No wonder you've been quiet! I hope it doesn't take you too long to rebuild your machine? I'm going to have to rebuild my PC fairly soon, as the operating system is edging closer and closer to just falling over sideways, but I've got so many programmes on there related to video editing that I'm reluctant to break. Is the hard disk in your old machine completely fried, or will you be able to use data recovery tools to get some of you information back? BrokenMnemonic (talk) 01:27, 24 May 2013 (PDT)

The hard disk is also death, no chance to restore data, i buy last week a new pc, and he works very well, and now i rebuilt my BT database, the half is finished.--Doneve (talk) 07:45, 24 May 2013 (PDT)

Background Maps

Hello BrokenMnemonic, I'm working also on the maps but haven't find a simple way to colorize the background at the maps. Can you explain it to my how you do this and what programs are involved. Please.

With best regards Neuling (talk) 15:09, 1 June 2013 (PDT)

Hi Neuling,

It depends on how the maps are already coloured and whether I'm at work at home. At home, I use Adobe Photoshop CS 2; at work, I use Paint Shop Pro 9. I do the bulk of the recolouring using the colour fill tool, having picked the colours out of the 3130 map issued by Oysten for MechWarrior:DA (as that has the widest range of colours for affiliations in it). The colour fill tool replaces the bulk of the background colour; I then usually use the colour replace tool to swap out the remaining areas of background colour.

It's a little tricky in places because the maps in the various published .pdfs are vector drawn maps from some sort of GIS Illustrator package, which means that the text resizes depending on what scale the map is taken at, and the font uses multiple colours to generate shading effects within the shape of the letters themselves. This often means that the text will look odd after the maps have been recoloured depending on how the recolouring was done and at what size the maps were copied - sometimes I have to take a copy of the original map at different levels of zoom to get a balance between the amount of area needed for the map in use here and keeping the font legible. It's usually easier to recolour elements of maps that are grey rather than white because of how the original illustrator program handles the shading of fonts.

Does that help at all? BrokenMnemonic (talk) 01:57, 3 June 2013 (PDT)

Faslane ships

Just reviewing Interstellar Players 3: Interstellar Expeditions, and found that three of them were transferred to Terra to supplement the titan shipyards. I know that there were two destroyed at Columbus base, so I think the three that survived were the Dover, Dun Laoghaire, and the Glamorgan. If you would double check me though, that would be good. (I was just going on the articles that said "this ship was supposed to have survived the Jihad, but ultimately failed to survive the Jihad." I don't know if those ships are the ones that were definitely destroyed.)

Thanks!--Mbear^(talk) 07:36, 4 June 2013 (PDT)

Hi Mbear,

I've been meaning to rework the articles for a while. The confusion stems from Oystein declaring all of the ships to have been destroyed in response to a question over on the forums, my having to work out by a process of elimination which were the last three to have been destroyed from various Jihad entries, and then a later sourcebook indicating that some of them had actually survived after all. I asked a question over on the forum to clarify, but I can't remember what the exact answer was - I remember logging a link to it for when I caught up with the sourcebook that included the change, but I haven't got to it yet. There are so many named vessels and so little time... BrokenMnemonic (talk) 07:44, 4 June 2013 (PDT)

Maps, response

Hello BrokenMnemonic, thanks first for your response of my question. I found a way to create the maps an other way. Can you take alook at my pag: User:Neuling/map-test and tell me your impression about and what could be done better. I incoporate the changes from 3067 to 3075 at various borders. I hope you can enjoy them in some way. Neuling (talk) 11:07, 15 June 2013 (PDT)

I hope you get my message.Neuling (talk) 04:29, 16 June 2013 (PDT)

Strange no response yet, but I think you have reasons which are not clear to me.Neuling (talk) 05:17, 16 June 2013 (PDT)

I've taken a look at the maps, and they look good to me - you've kept the names clearly legible, and the color scheme matches the one Catalyst use most commonly. I'm rather surprised you've managed to find a decent electronic copy of the map in Jihad Secrets to work from - every copy I've seen is an image, rather than a vector drawing, which means it doesn't scale when enlarged. Those maps should actually give us clear maps of the Malagrotta Cooperative for the first time, amongst other states. What are you planning on doing with them? At the least, each nation/faction deserves to get a local map within their pages here on Sarna to show the 3075 borders. Did you add the border changes yourself, or are they on the original source map? BrokenMnemonic (talk) 01:58, 18 June 2013 (PDT)

I have taken an review of my available sources. That means entire maps for

Inner Sphere

• 2596 (After Reunification War)
• 2750|2764 (during Star League Era)
• 2866 (1st Succession War)
• 3025 (3rd Succession War)
• 3030 (4th Succession War)
• 3040 (after War of 3039)
• 3050 (before Operation Revival)
• 3052 (after Clan Invasion)
• 3063 (after Operation Bulldog)
• 3067 (after Fed-Com Civil War)
• 3075 (during Jihad)
• 3081 (after Jihad)
• 3085 (Republic Era)
• 3130 (Beginning of Dark Age)
• 3135 (After HPG Black Out)
• 3145 (Republic Fortress)

additional the maps from the various Historicals and Housebooks. When needed with the territorial Changes. With best regards Neuling (talk) 11:50, 20 June 2013 (PDT)

Operation ????

I read what you placed on BobTheZombie's talk page and it got me thinking about what to do with the Operations that are already in place on the wiki site. The example that I bring up is the Operation LIBERATION which I redirected to Operation Liberation since it was already created and not to have two of the same things on the site. Instead of redirecting LIBERATION to Liberation, should I have instead copied the information from the already created page and pasted it into the capital form of the operation and then did the reversal of the redirect? DerangedShadow (talk) 12:04, 24 June 2013 (PDT)

For the existing Operations, what I've been doing depends on how many places the operations are mentioned in. Where they crop up in lots of articles, I just go with a REDIRECT, but where there are only a couple of links, I'll create a redlink for the revised title and then move it across.

The reason I noticed the MAILED FIST links changing is that I've been using the same format consistently throughout my work on Historical: Reunification War, which means that there are more than a hundred articles using the capitalized form, and I've been doing the same thing with Operation APOTHESIS as and when I work through Historical: Liberation of Terra Volume 1. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 12:17, 24 June 2013 (PDT)

Apocryphal content, part 2

BrokenMnemonic, could you drop by Template talk:ApocryphalContent please? I've made a couple templates and I'd like your feedback. Thanks!--Mbear^(talk) 07:24, 28 June 2013 (PDT)

Blake Documents Maps

Hy BM, i moved the 3075 maps to the BattleTechWiki:Project Planets/Planet Overhaul/Faction Map Gallery, take a look.--Doneve (talk) 16:30, 9 July 2013 (PDT)

They look good, don't they? I wonder if Neuling will be producing maps from Jihad: Final Reckoning and FM: 3085 too. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 03:44, 10 July 2013 (PDT)

Sure, i talk to him.--Doneve (talk) 11:17, 10 July 2013 (PDT)

Hidden Five

BrokenMnemonic, will you be creating a page for the Hidden Five or should I go ahead and put a redirect from that page to The Five page? DerangedShadow (talk) 13:43, 12 July 2013 (PDT)