Talk:List of BattleTech Print Novels and Anthologies

Name of page

The name of the page doesn't seem to match its content. Shouldn't this be titled "List of BattleTech Print Novels and Anthologies"? Either (i) renaming or (ii) splitting off anthologies into their own directory/list page would seem to make sense. Does anyone have a preference between (i) or (ii)? I am leaning towards (i) myself. --Dude RB (talk) 20:18, 28 October 2021 (EDT)

I'm liking (i) also. If there were already an anthologies-only list (I tried 3 permutations), I'd stick with it, but there isn't.

Since the primary point of the list (which has to be maintained in parallel with the same categories) is to summarize the product showcased with a cover image, I can understand why short stories are not included in this list.--Revanche ^{(talk|contribs)} 06:36, 29 October 2021 (EDT)

In surveying the list, I found that The Spider and the Wolf is also in this list. This appears to qualify as either a comic (and also short fiction). So a slightly broader term seems approrpiate. I am thinking "List of BattleTech Print Fiction" will expand such enough to encompass such without extending to include sourcebooks as well. (Note: "Literature" is a possible alternative to "Fiction", but "Print Literature" could be considered to encompass promotional materials, i.e., pamphlets, flyers, etc.) So I am leaning towards "Print Fiction" here. But I am open to others' thoughts.

Side Note: This may have ramification for the naming of the corresponding foreign language lists, e.g., List of BattleTech print novels in spanish, if or when they include anything beyond novels. So it is reasonable to consider what term would define the collection of novels, short stories, and anthologies in a general context. "Fiction" seems like the appropriate term in the general context as well. --Dude RB (talk) 09:07, 30 October 2021 (EDT)

I would remove the Spider and the Wolf. I do not have access to the wikis metadata but I am pretty sure "List of BattleTech print novels" will be one of our highest hitters for google searches, thus a major source of newbies finding our wiki I imagine. And as another secondary consideration beyond the foreign language lists would be the fact that most short stories do not have cover art, and as they outnumber the novels, it would mean the article needs a redesign. Since the article design is uniform across the novel lists and looks good. I would say "Don't fix what ain't broken" rename it "List of BattleTech Print Novels and Anthologies" and leave it at that.--Dmon (talk) 09:19, 30 October 2021 (EDT)

Good points, Dmon. The searchability factor (both for internal and external searches) is definitely a strong argument for "Print Novels and Anthologies". Including short stories would indeed mean some rework of the page. However, the number of print short stories (meaning short stories that were published individually in print form) might actually be quite small. In fact, are there any beyond The Spider and the Wolf? I do not know. In any case, simplicity (avoiding a major revamp of the page's content) and searchability would argue for "Print Novels and Anthologies". --Dude RB (talk) 11:26, 30 October 2021 (EDT)

There was a time when products, even novels, were physical products by default. That time is over, but I'm having a very hard time reshuffling and redefining the wiki structure around this. This article is a good example for the problems that come with the paradigm shift in publication - new novels are coming out, but "print" has lost all relevance as a distinguishing property. In that sense, this article is of largely historical value, not so much as an up-to-date representation anymore. I'd still like to keep it. Frabby (talk) 04:52, 31 October 2021 (EDT)

Frabby, your comment raises some interesting thoughts, which I will raise in a separate section. --Dude RB (talk) 14:46, 31 October 2021 (EDT)

Removing "Print" from "Print Novels and Anthologies"

I am wondering if it may make sense to simply remove the word "Print" from the title of this page, i.e. retitle it "List of BattleTech Novels and Anthologies" and then redevelop (gradually) as needed, say by adding sections or entries for novels/anthologies not currently contained. I surmise that none of what is given here would need to removed. Any recent or forthcoming novels/anthologies not included could be added as individual entries (or as their own section if needed for sake of formatting or grouping).

With individual short stories still excluded from this list, it would have a well defined niche and it would not be inundated by the sheer volume of short stories. (If a short story directory was desired, such could be formed as a separate page (if someone had the desire/will), but otherwise Category:Short Stories works as a short story directory.)

Such would be a natural companion to pages like BattleTech boxed set, Mapsheet, and Miniatures. I believe someone is seeking to create something similar for rulebooks as well. Defining these kind of summary pages by type (rather than type and format) seems to make more sense to me. [FYI: The summary article Mapsheet is an example of a page that started out being devoted to physical products but which now includes both physical and digital products, so perhaps its example may be helpful.]

This is an initial idea. I haven't thought through all the logistics yet. In particular, one question I don't know the answer to is the following:

Q1: How many novels or anthologies are there that are purely digital (with no print or print on demand option)?

If any have an answer to this question or you have further thoughts on the idea of removing the print distinction for this page, please share. --Dude RB (talk) 14:46, 31 October 2021 (EDT)

Having thought about it for some time, yes, I agree this is the way forward. The article should ditch the publication venue and publisher and should be transformed into "BattleTech fiction publications" - essentially a subset of products, and organized in much the same fashion, most importantly by year instead of publisher or product line. Also, besides listing every novel, novella and anthology in the fashion already established by this article I want a rundown of published short stories (links!) for every anthology, treating each year of BattleCorps as an anthology unto itself. That should result in a complete fiction rundown, except for sourcebook fiction/rulebook fiction. We may discuss adding these in too once the bulk of the article restructuring is done.

Comments welcome. If nobody objects I will simply start reworking the article in a few weeks' time. Frabby (talk) 01:17, 8 March 2023 (EST)